IAQ Tools for Schools Webinar Transcription – Mold and Moisture: Double Trouble for Schools July 20, 2011 Jennifer Lemon: Good afternoon or good morning everybody and welcome to the Indoor Air Quality Tools for Schools Technical Webinar Series. Today's presentation is entitled Mold and Moisture: Double Trouble for Schools and just so you know a little bit of background about me – I'm with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency; I'm the Indoor Air Quality Tools for Schools Program Representative. This Webinar will feature school mold experts Peggy Caruso from Katy Independent School District and Texas – Katy Independent School District in Texas, and Todd Spore with PBK Architects and they will be sharing their knowledge and insights about controlling mold and moisture in schools. Participants will learn about common sources of mold and moisture, how to detect mold growth and technical information and resources to help you remediate these issues in your school environments. I appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to attend this Webinar. Jennifer Lemon: Okay, let's go ahead and just so we let you know that the slides, the questions, the answers that we'll have at the end of this Webinar and any other follow-up documents that support the resources section will all be available in a few weeks online for you to download. We also have the Webinar and a transcription that will be linked together, so if you want to share this with your colleagues and pass it along in that manner, they themselves can also download and view the Webinar just as you're seeing it right now today. So, first as Andrew was discussing in his brief overview, we're going to start off with a polling question. If you could read the section and participate this would give us a better idea of the type of participants that are on the phone right now. So the first polling question – Do you use the Indoor Air Quality Tools for Schools walkthrough assessment to monitor for moisture prone areas? Go ahead and open the poll now. Okay, we're going to go ahead and close the poll and share the results with you. Okay, it looks like the majority of the people are familiar with the kit contents and are using the assessment or assessing their moistures to the prone areas; 38 percent are performing assessments to make corrections, okay, great. So it looks like all in all you guys are on top or at least monitoring the mold you see in your school so that's definitely a good thing to know, so let's go ahead and continue. I'm going to do a brief overview of the IAQ Tools for Schools Program and its resources and then we will kick it off to our expert speakers Peggy and Todd. So hopefully some of you, if not all of you, are familiar with the Indoor Air Quality Tools for Schools kit. It has been around since about 1995 and it's an evolving resource for us that continues to be a strong foundational element of our program. It provides the best practices, walkthrough checklist and industry guidelines, sample IAQ policies and sample IAQ management plans to help schools and school districts take immediate action or to sustain current existing IAQ management programs. We have been benchmarking a tool for schools program successfully in 10s and 1000s of schools nationwide and from that we have taken a lot of knowledge and learned what it takes from these programs to deliver remarkable health environmental results that the schools also seek regarding indoor air quality. This is the Tools for Schools Framework. A lot of you – this may be familiar to you as well. EPA organized this framework of proven solution and we've used it to provide a common language to describe the drivers or indoor air quality program success. It offers detail guidance on a proven strategy, organizational approaches and leadership styles that are fundamental to program effectiveness. It also presents a clear vision of the path laid to school IAQ excellent. We have found in our work with schools that some districts have learned just to also implement this strategy we're about to discuss regarding other environmental health issues in their district. We find it highly flexible, it's instruction for any school and regardless of your location, size, budget or condition use the framework to launch reinvigorate and sustain IAQ management programs in your district. By applying a cycle of continuous assessment planning, action and evaluation the Six Key Drivers work together to deliver factors for IAQ management programs but they can also be applied to other management systems within a school district as well. As you can see on your screen these are the Six Key Drivers. They are organizing a program, communicating with everyone all the time, assessing your school environment and how occupants are doing continuously, planning your short and long term actions based on your assessments and other important factors acting to solve or prevent IAQ problems and address structural, institutional and behavioral issues and evaluating your result with the impact of your program for continuous improvement. Within the Framework the Six Technical Solutions define the most common issues that schools need to address to effectively manage IAQ risks. When it directs systemically and aggressively an IAQ program that focuses on the six technical solutions will deliver a healthier school environment. The Six Technical Solutions are insulation and maintenance of your ACAC system, active aggressive control of moisture and mold which is why we're all here today and strong integrated path management and also inclusive of factors consisting cleaning and maintenance activities, smart low emitting, low toxicity material selection and aggressive source control. For example, through anti-idling school bus policies radon testing or proactively managing the schools chemical inventory. So now that we've gotten through just the basics of the Indoor Air Quality Tools for Schools program we're going to obviously have a – this is just a little CYA slide to talk about what we're about to move into regarding the – what the speakers are going to talk about. This webinar is designed to inform participants about the mold and moisture in schools and our speakers are obviously extremely knowledgeable about this issue that's why we've asked them to participate in our Webinar. We're not endorsing anything regarding their backgrounds or the information they're about to provide so having them on this Webinar is not an endorsement for them. I didn't want to read this slide because it's a lot of lawyer speak, but it's something that we would like to address upfront. So next we have one more polling question before we launch into the technical aspect that Todd and Peggy will provide us. Do you have a plan for monitoring moisture and – monitoring moisture in your school buildings? We're going to go ahead and open the poll so please vote we'll leave it open for about 30 seconds. Okay, we're going to go ahead and close the poll. It looks like one of the best things I'm seeing right now is the majority of you are educating your occupants and training your staff. I think that is really an intricate part of managing this issue in schools so that's really wonderful to see the majority of you guys are doing that. The close second would be using IAQ inspections, which is really great to hear as well. I think Todd and Peggy are both going to cover that in their presentation and how that's been effective in the way that they're managing mold and moisture in the districts. So great to know, I appreciate everybody participating in those polls; let us continue. Before I kick it off and pass it on to Todd let me give you a little brief background about him. He is the President of PBK Facility Consulting Group based out of Houston, Texas. Todd is in processing educational roofing, waterproofing and building envelop consulting since 1990. He's a member and former regional III director of the RCI which is the Institute of Roofing, Waterproofing and Building Envelop Professionals and he holds a Bachelor's of Environment Designs in Texas A&M University. Todd has expansive experience of evaluating, detailing and managing the many various issues associated with exterior building envelop across Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi and Florida and before I pass them onto Todd because I know both Todd and Peggy are very excited to be talking about this topic. I'm going to go ahead and also give you a brief background about Peggy before she launches into her presentation directly after Todd. Peggy Caruso is the Assistant Director of the Environmental Program at Katy Independent School District, Maintenance and Operations Department. She has been active with the U.S. EPA's Indoor Air Quality Tools for Schools Program since 2000 and is a strong supporter and mentor. Peggy has her Texas Mold Remediation Assessment and Contractors License. Thank you in advance both to our speakers Todd and Peggy. Todd, I'm going to go ahead and kick it off to you, go ahead. Todd Spore: All right thank you very much Jennifer. It's an honor and a privilege to speak to such a great diverse group located as we could see today, all across the country and then other countries as well. With that being said, I'll kind of jive in with what Jen's alluded to earlier and just welcome everybody, everybody to my right I'm guess I'm going to have to say good afternoon and everybody to my left I'll say good morning and then those of you kind of stuck in the middle with me and trying to eat lunch and listen at the same time I guess I'll say good luck; slide please. Just a quick overview of what we're going to try to be going over today. I'll be discussing more of the exterior envelop and later Peggy will continue with her discussion kind of moving it into the interior but what we're going to try to review today is some of the forces that work on building the envelops as well as the importance of that exterior envelop as well. Then lastly we'll end up with a few slides as kind of given some of the common examples that we see the most of as far as the failure modes and defects that are pertaining to the exterior building envelop; next. So why are we concerned about the water because as most people realize that approximately 80 to 90 percent of all building problems are associated with water whether they're in the inside or the outside of your building water can penetrate that building envelop in many different shapes, fashions or forms. It can take the shape of water vapor, it can come in as the liquid state that are the most common and most used to seeing as well as to our friends up to the north of me at least they could also enter the building in a solid state. As you all should know, every exterior building envelop all the components are very subject to water infiltration, migration and what we all most commonly refer to as leaks. These leaks can be found in your roof, your walls, your doors, windows, your brick veneers, your plaster veneers even through your foundation so from an exterior building shell trying to control these issues are really the key drivers that we're going to try to discus's today; next slide please. If we look at this thing kind of break it down, it's the three basic concepts where leaks occur when there's three different conditions that we're going to talk about here exist simultaneously. You need to have rain water obviously that's saturation, the duration of that water. The momentum of that water as it hits your building envelop as well as openings. You got to have doors, windows, cracks, joints, holes anything in that wall that could possibly allow that water, that moisture to infiltrate as well as we need natural forces; there's pressure differentials, there's gravity, the capillary actions, air currents, different things like that can all effect and occur in your building to exist to have leaks. In other words if we can eliminate one of these three conditions and water would just not get into your building envelop. They can't make it if we can get rid of one of these three so if these conditions – out of these three conditions I should say there's really only one of them that we have any control over. We're not going to control Mother Nature; she's going to bring rain whenever she wants to. Of course down here in Texas we'd like to have seen a little bit more of that these days. The natural forces, you know, we can't control the laws of physics. We're always going to have those bearing down on our buildings, so next slide please. So the one impact – the one thing that we can have an impact on is going to be the openings. Next slide, please. So to ensure a tighter building envelop is essential for controlling the mold and moisture as we find out these days – in the old days roofs were kind of the main topic of discussion. Every time there was leak it would generally involve the roof. These days we are seeing more and more issues involved with the envelop or the walls so in other words the leaks aren't just for roofs anymore. Here we're going to talk a little bit about some of the numerous ways that water can most get into your building. It just takes this much of a 1000th of an inch of a crack in an exterior wall to allow water seepage and infiltration into your buildings. Cracked and porous, brick and plaster and absorption of those materials are some of the most commonly known sources for that. Improperly installed motor joints and cracked motor joints; in fact this is a neat little way to kind of describe that or understand the extents of it. If you were to take 2000 square foot of the wall surface that equals approximately 135,000 modular bricks. It equates also to about 22.7 miles of motor joints and if you include both the head and the bed joints of that the interfaces of that, that equates to about 45.5 miles of places that could actually be cracked, crazed or opened in a way to allow water into your building. We also see a lot of issues in regards to poorly bonded dissimilar metals or materials, excuse me like some brick joints from different wall materials these days that we're seeing more use of metals, panels and all kinds of different types of dissimilar materials. Also movement type joints, you have expansion joints, controlled joints, you have window to brick joints all types of situations where the building is going to move a little differently and potentially open up as well as the walls themselves whether it's through the top of the wall from a coping cap or any kind of penetration whether it's a window or a door as well as various. other types of wall penetrations such as pipes and conduits, duct work, signage, any kinds of cameras that get installed to these – to our building walls are all potential issues to be concerned about and to make sure that you're follow up on; next slide please. What I'd like to do now is just kind of really get into the more graphic detail of some of these things and show some – a few slides here that will give you a little bit more of an example of some of the common defects and failure modes that we most commonly see in exterior building envelop. We've been talking mostly about moisture but I would like to just point out through this slide here that it's not only moisture that we need to be concerned about but air infiltration as well it is just as critical. On the slide or the photo to the left you'll see a detail of an installed roof edge cut away there where if you'll see right to the right hand side of the brick you'll see a black piece of membrane that is coming down from the angle iron down the CMU. That is a very critical juncture of where air and/or moisture can enter into the building through these construction joints in your wall. On the picture, photo on the right hand side you'll see a little bit better detail or description of all different other kinds of avenues whether it's through the roof membrane, through the metal deck again, through that iBeam or parameter construction member as well. Another thing that doesn't get commonly known is the backup wall so this is the slide that shows and exhibits a stud type of backs open to the ceiling or through the plenum and not closed off to the bottom of the structure you have the potential of air and moisture leakage into the building from there as well; next slide please. Here are some very good examples; the photo on the left is a typical example of a thermal and expansion and contraction in a brick wall. This would, I'd have to say, is more likely the result of not having enough control joints in that wall where the expansion and contraction of that surface has broken through not just through the joints of the brick but actually cracked right through the brick as well. The photo on the left, excuse me, the photo on the right there where it's more of a stair stepping effect; those are more indicative type of cracks and failure modes in the structure or settling of the foundation resulting in that type of an opening. Nonetheless both are true examples of just ways that water can bet into your building and over attacks the backup wall and the drainage planes that we have built into these types of assembles; next slide please. Here's another good example of evidence of moisture migration into the wall. The photo on the left is an example of water that has gotten into this brick wall whether through absorption, whether it was through some kind of an opening up above; nonetheless water has obviously attacked some of the latter re-enforcing in that wall and when they rushed and they expand and this is an example it just literally spoiling or popping the face of the brick off. The photo on the right is very indicative of what we see a lot down here in Houston in that – the latter reinforcing as you can see, it's approximately two feet as you travel up the wall. Whenever you see the bed joints popping out like this picture describes is a very good indication that the wall has become under attack from the moisture and definitely rust the later reinforcing causing the motor joints to pop out and be exposed; next photo please or next slide. These are a little bit more of a close up of that condition we just talked about. A photo on the left there is a cutaway of the brick. You're looking at the black damp proofing plane of the backup wall and if you can see there is a little rusted tie that's coming out from that backup wall over to the brick course in front. Due to that moisture in this wall that brick tie rusted completely through resulting in an unsafe or unsecure brick of the veneer as far as this wall is concerned. Another example there on the right would be how that moisture is attacking those lateral reinforcing even if it was also a lintel angle we've seen those as well this gets overly wet and moisture attacking that and rusting and causing it to expand and spoil things out; next slide please. This is the perfect example of what we see we do many, many building assessments throughout the state and many other states and one of the most common things that we see are just the typical run of the mill exterior hose bibs that are usually located with inside the brick veneer of the wall. This one is an example of one that has leaked over many years or many months causing a lot of mildew and moisture issues. The biggest problems with those also is what is that also doing to the brick ties behind that those are things that when you see things like this and you know that there has been a lot of water pouring and running down that wall some of the things that you need to do is just not only fix the leak but also research behind that brick and make sure that there are no other issues. Another example of there to the right photo is just common, common. Even after your building is built there is all kinds of additions and renovations and things that people want to try to poke through your wall ensuring that when anybody that makes a hole through your wall obviously these are very big voids in the brick veneer there allowing tremendous amount of water direct access into your building; next slide please. Here we're going to move into or discuses a little bit about windows. Some of the most common things that we see in regards to our window assemblies, on the left we have an example of a lap joint for the sill pan condition of that window. Unfortunately, in this particular case you can see how on the left hand side it's not seating very well so it's sticking up above the plain to the right well in which case you can see the dirt sitting up against the window because of the sill kind of kick back and cock back towards the window instead of sloping away from that window. Another common situation that we see is there on the right photo. This is actually an aluminum – extruded aluminum frame system those types of assemblies are very difficult to get any kind of a lap joint even though that's the most common or most desired because you have a tendency to be able to get sealant in between those laps when you find a butt joint like this you really are totally reliant on the substructure, sub-situation making sure that you're water tight. This joint obviously is not only from the outside but it also extends passed the window to the inside as well so you can see and imagine that is coming into that situation there; next slide please. Another example of a window, photo on the left; this is a perfect example of what we like to see as far as a sill pan goes with what we will call an in damp if you can see close enough there the sill pan does turn up just like it should the only problem there is it's installed on the outside of the vertical jam member of that frame. What would have made this a more perfect condition had that in damp been underneath or behind the jam condition so that water as it's sheeting down the window frame has a way to hit the sill and come out and be protected from being entering into the wall assembly. The photo on your right there is a good example of a door. There are a few things going on in this photo but the most glaring is the fact that after a building in use we see a tremendous amount of issues in regards to the adjustments of those doors. They get beaten, banged and pushed and pulled and after a while they just don't come close to the frame and to the weather stripping close enough, excuse me, close enough or tight enough to mitigate the amount of water obviously as well not the best thing in the world to have is carpet up against your exterior door in this situation. Peggy later on will get into more – a little bit more detail with that. Also in regards to the doors we see a lot of misuse of the sweep conditions. Instead of weather stripping gasket situation sometimes we get some interior brush type of sweeps and just knowing what you have on your door is very critical to just help mitigate those water entry issues; next slide please. On the left, the photo on the left is a good example of a low roof coming into a rise wall. This is a perfect example of what we would refer to as a surface mounted counter flashing condition. As you can see the receiver is pinned to the wall and just a cock joint keeping the building or keeping those base slashing secure. These are the types of conditions that we try to avoid in the big picture of things, we like to have through wall flashings in situations like this because of the nature of brick we know that it's going to absorb water, we know that water is going to be running down within the white of that brick and although this type of detail will keep you water tight from a surface application any water that is migrating through the white of that brick course is going to bypass this counter flashing and hence into your building. The photo on the right is a good example of some installation issues that we come across quite often. We have – you can tell we have a great through wall condition above this window head. We have our damp proofing and our water proof membrane sealed in coming from the backup wall shooting out from underneath the brick and out to the phase, that's very nice; however, the mason when he was installing the brick as he went up the wall you can see how much drippage of mortar he had while installing that brick causing what we call a mortar dam. The bad things about these are its plugged up all of the weak conditions and it really helps ensure that water is going to back up and possible get into the building through other avenues; next slide please. This is a perfect example of again transitions from low roofs to high walls. The photo on your left is a good example of a true through wall condition, through wall flashing very well installed and no issues where the base flashings come up unfortunately they just did not continue it out to the edge of the roof, very commonly – common mistake – common issue that we get involved in trying to resolve. There's just that last six inches there where water still can be travelling through the brick courses and falling down into your building. The photo on the right there is a perfect example of what we would call a stair step condition with your through wall. Again, we have a good through wall, the tray, the metal receiver tray goes through the brick, it turns up behind and is secured to the backup wall. You can see to the right of that transition there there's a nice weep hole there for water to drain out. Unfortunately they just stopped the through wall at each other and did not overlap. Other conditions that we like to see when we do these kinds of details because it actually continue that receiver down to the stair step so it is all one piece. We can have those joints inside and outside corners soldered and welded together so that we know that we've got maximum protection. This is obviously one of the weaker points in any kind of a through wall condition, anytime that you change plain and so it's very critical that you have it properly overlapped or continuing down through the stair step; next slide please. This is another good example; this was an existing surface mount type of condition on a shingled roof up against a raking wall there. As you can tell, when we took off the through wall and started breaking up the brick two things really jumped out of me at the most is the fact that there are no – there is not a damp proofing plane at all you're looking at just virgin CMU with all of its glory of cracks and motor joints. On the right hand photo, I'd like to mention if you look at the little metal brick tie there that is also very good way what we refer to as – there's another word for water that is running down the backside of this face brick. These brick ties that come from the backup wall and secure your brick which is required and necessary are also good places for motor to fall on through the course of construction create bridges for this water that is running down just the face brick to hop over the airspace and then be running down your backup wall. And in this particular situation you can see this structural angle and gaps in the backup substrate there that really was one of the biggest culprits of the issue there that allowed water entry into that building. And lastly to the next slide please, more show and a good example of just different types of things that you find when you're trying to install through wall the photo on the left is a crack brace or cross bracing of the structure and these are things from a design standpoint, from an installation standpoint that we really, really like to try to avoid. These become very cumbersome and very difficult to adequately waterproof as you can see this angle coming up through our stainless steel through wall tray, it just makes it very difficult to seal and have everything drained properly. The photo on the right is a perfect example of a structural member column being too far out in the plane of that wall not allowing the sealing in the corner so it's a very – it's a big challenge for us to be able to ensure and to keep that waterproofing plane consistent when there's not a solid substrate. And with that, I will turn it over to Peggy. Peggy Caruso: Great presentation, Todd, thank you very much. Katy is fourth largest growing district in Texas and maybe the nation, I have to check on that statistically. We have 62,000 students, 7,700 staff and 62 facilities and two – six facilities currently under construction; next slide. Mold is still news guys; it impacts health, property and can be a financial burden. As part of our U.S. EPA Tools for Schools indoor environment program, our department has developed training and procedures to address these problems; next slide. Mold can grow on virtually any organic material as long as moisture and oxygen are present. Construction material, building design, occupant behavior and maintenance and operations practices must be considered in a mold and moisture plan. Cleaning is important to maintain a healthy school. If food and spills are not removed mold will grow. Cleaning prior to unoccupied time periods or before storage will help prevent mold growth; therefore, training for the custodial staff is very important. Katy ISD has a great training program, we have our own room set up to do that training and for the custodian have specialized people to do that; next slide please. This might seem a little bit off subject but I want to provide a note here about clutter in schools. You can – this list is taken from a Webinar I participated in by the healthy schools network in ASBO and the reason I have it in here is that really clutter impedes a thorough inspection for indoor air quality; next slide. For instance these are some poor examples; rooms that are pretty cluttered, closets in the classroom and what lurks behind the clutter could be water pipes, floor drains, air intakes or air returns; next slide. Our new model is a healthy sustainable classroom, easy to manage and maintain and good for inspections and follow up on complaints; next slide. Let's look how we consider building design and construction material in our mold action plan. We have 13 elementary schools built in this particular footprint design. What you see here is the backside of a restroom pod so this is a wall to wall of a little inset inside a building that is strictly used for facilities – restroom facilities; next slide. Inside the walls from that backside you just saw this is the inside looking to that backside so we have a hallway, a wall, vinyl clad sheet rock, a very small and nine – 10-inch space with plumbing and then you see that we have this tile wall here. Inside these lines are – inside these walls are plumbing lines, Johnny rings, trap primers, joints and fittings. There are numerous water intrusion opportunities; next slide. One of our first construction changes we requested was to remove the fiber glass insulation. Our architects gave us a resounding no because the fiberglass is for sound attenuation. We compromised so that the insulation – there is no insulation from the floor 12 inches up and there would be no paper or foil backing. When you're looking at this slide here from the corner there is a mop sink, a facilities rest room and you see the water fountains, the drain and then you'd walk right into the restrooms you saw in the previous slide; next slide. When there is fiber glass insulation in those walls and you have any kind of leak you can see what happens. Fiberglass you can see the water molecules just move right up those fibers even more so than sheet rock and you can see on this slide at the top from the ceiling down the sheet rock is dry but the rest of it so we know that the water travelled from the trap of this wall up along the fiberglass insulation; next slide. Realizing the problems that we have or the concerns that are in these moisture pods, restroom pods and we have set in a plan, a quarterly reading with a Tramex moisture meter those other meters – we happened to have this. Each one of our field teams has a moisture meter in their toolkit. The readings are plotted on the floor plan and saved in our work order system; next slide. The moisture travels, wet to dry, weakest to lowest point and sometimes we have to perform destructive test to even find out where that moisture is coming from because there is nothing right there. So this one – this particular area was from a mop sink; next slide. So we've had quite a bit of problems with mop sinks in both plumbing and occupant behavior play a part in the leaks at these sinks; this particular slide you're looking at, if you look to the right at the mop sink that wall is all the way open and you see carpet on the other side. So, this was the cut out and the next slide is what we would like to have in our mop sinks. We included FRP panel so it's a solid sheet of plastic protects the sheet rock from moisture. You can see that the hose is not wrapped up on the handles but laid correctly into the sink itself. Even the smallest amount of drip over a long period of time will cause damage to that building, will cause mold to grow on that sheet rock and moisture to migrate through that wall. Even though I do not like the way this mop hanger is the mop hanger itself is too long but the mop is hung in the mop sink itself not on the floor dripping but in the mop sink is well sealed and the water should flow in to the middle of the room to the drain and no moisture leakage out into the walls or wherever it might migrate to; next slide. We always train to look for visual finds. We don't just use destructive, we don't just use moisture meters but we keep our eyes open visually and you should not see rust on door frames in this type of environment even so we would investigate this and find out why is there rust there. That particular problem happened to be a trap primer around the corner that was inside of a wall. Anytime you find separated vinyl wall covering like this it requires further investigation because a little bit of moisture will cause that vinyl wall covering to separate and you could find other problems behind them a very common scenario also; next slide. We had a leak – Todd was talking about exterior water, evidence of exterior water intrusion on the next slide. There was a very – OK, our employees are knowledgeable and equipped to remove stained or molding ceiling top and investigate the reason for the moisture and on performing this job as well as provide proper PPE; our next slide cocking at sinks and our Tools for Schools inspection we report the need for cocking and/or repair such as this particle boards backsplash, which we would like to phase out of the district but a little bit of moisture there and that tight fitting sink causes that problem in that room and the next room also. Next slide on portable building; we have provided written procedures and a lot of communication to manage air in our portables. If the setting is – and you can see the little sign there set to auto only, we've had instances where teachers or somebody will come in after hours on weekends in the summer, the air is not running or it's not cool enough for them because we do setup our air a little bit and they will switch it to fan; that condition pulling in the hot humid golf coast air we will have an entire room green growing mold within 48 hours so we had to put into effect a plan to monitor that. We had a lot of communication and inform occupants of use and off hours of our facilities; next slide. Surfaces such as just grainy edge of a desk will grow mold quickly but better cleaning might have prevented this growth; next slide. Wherever you see or leave sticky food and fingerprints, people grease I call it, mold will quickly appear so maybe we had failed to clean the underside of this cafeteria table before putting it up for storage; next slide. This is mold not mud and you can see kind of yellow, green there but what we had done, we had set precedence for not allowing this. We have a vinyl mat, we're afraid that somebody is going to slip and fall or the water faults it. So they put the vinyl mat there and as the water trickles down the elbows and the spine of the faucet it goes underneath the mat and onto our VCTT, Vinyl Cushion Tufted Textile and so leaving it there for a short period of time we would have to remove this flooring and we put in better products that wouldn't allow this to happen and also not have that vinyl on top of the flooring like that. Occupant behavior and next slide; I have talked a little bit about the strict guidelines on facility use and here is another example. At summertime, we cut back on air so our teachers come in, didn't let anybody know that they were there and wanted to use this kiln and it was in the kiln room over to the right, they turned it on, they did their firing and left. At 2 0'clock in the morning the fire – the heads – sprinkler head melts, fire alarm goes off, three quarter inch line of water runs for a couple of hours until we respond and are able to shut it off. At that time, a whole wing of the school is wet. Our next slide, we have the maintenance operations environmental team performing water extraction as soon as I find out on our next slide contacted vinyl company said send us every piece of drying and dehumidification equipment you have we're going to have to really set this up. What you're looking at here is the water that flowed so far it actually had gone underneath of a fairly new wood stage and we took off the front panels of that wood stage and started extracting the water. We were able to remove the water, next slide and have that very day within 12 hours – you can see that the walls have been – the sweat sheet rock has been cut and removed and you know, one of the craziest things we called and said, what are we going to do, we've got vinyl wall coverings here so we started pealing that up and pushed – use tacked pins to push that up, remove the wet sheet rock and started just really drying everything. We were cleaning tracks by this time within 12 hours all the water had been taken up and we've got drying equipment working there. So it was a real save for the district and a good success story; next page. Good moisture management is nothing but good cost savings. We plan on improving student attendance because we have good healthy sustainable schools, we lower our mitigation cost, prolong the life of the building and we reduce pest management cost because we don't have that moisture there; next slide. How did we get to this level of expectation in our district? In 2003 we implemented the U.S. Tools for Schools Program and acted to address structural and statistician and behavior issues; next slide. We established a plan from indoor air quality inspections. We documented and communicated through work orders a complain procedure; listening to the campus staff our maintenance and operations staff. We keep a spreadsheet of all the projects that we want to accomplish when school is out and things that we can proactive on and a lot of our works we put in on work orders either receive it or we will implement those work orders ourselves for environmental projects; next plan. There are so many resources available. We use the Mold Remediation in Schools and Commercial Buildings document. We took our Tools for Schools Program and implemented it straight out of the kit; there are a lot of resources there. I especially like the building science information and this is where we got our start and I wish you success on your mold and moisture plan. Jennifer Lemon: Thank you so much Peggy. Todd and Peggy that was really very informative. We got a lot of great feedback of how much people loved the pictures that you guys provided and certainly the sound recommendations and information as well. So, thank you again. We're going to go ahead and turn to what the IAQ Tools for Schools Program has to offer as far as resources. As you can see there is – the Web page for the initial guidance with DART. The IAQ Tools for Schools Program has an update email which has newsletters that bring the hot topics emerging resource and best practice to your inbox. You can subscribe to receive those; if you already aren't. It's one of the places we also let you know that there are upcoming webinars coming on. You may also join IAQ Tools for Schools Connector listserv and this allows you to connect directly with your peers to the National Tools for Schools Network and share information and resources and communicate that by email. Whether it's – we also have the option to ask questions anonymously or provide your information so people can see – can see how people are responding and you can join the Listserv and drive the conversation. You can also provide your recommendations and experiences as well so certainly you guys are just a much of a resource as the tangible paper products that we have and you can join the Listserv by sending an email through that email listed up there on the page and also if you're interested in downloading the presentation slides from previous Webinars and also this one you can visit our Webinar resource page and the PDF copies of the presentation slide you can download also the question and answer document that is created for each Webinar and additional resources or companion pieces are affiliated with the topic of discussion. Also we do have an additional resource that was provided to us from the Center of Indoor Environment and Health in Connecticut Health Center and they are working on this project that has checklists and there is just an example right here of the one page dampness and mold assessment sheet. We will have these checklists in PDF format also on our webpage where you would access the downloadable materials for the Webinar portion of this. So these are things that – you also have access to – you can also contact these individuals as well if you have any questions or would like additional information about this checklist that's provided. And lastly, here is the contact information for myself and Peggy and Todd if you would like to connect with us directly. Like I said all this information will be available online so if you were feverishly writing all this contact information do not worry we will have PDF versions of the slides available to you as well as the audio portion and the companion pieces for this Webinar. Lastly, I would like of you to mark your calendars; our next technical Webinar will be about radon in school. We are in the process of confirming the exact date but we have narrowed it down to the week of August 22nd so it's – usually we try to plan Webinars on Tuesdays. So look for the email notification to register for this Webinar. Now, we do have a lot of questions that have been submitted so we will try to address as many as we can within the time. We are exactly at 2 o'clock and I am respectful of everybody's time, this Webinar was dedicated for one hour so I'm going to read some questions and Todd and Peggy you have the option to answer these questions as they come up. Any questions we do not get to at this time we will provide a complete reference manual – listing of all these questions and answers like I said in the follow-up materials that we'll have after this Webinar. So the first question is, in the southwest there are structures and this is concerning stucco. Okay, Todd and Peggy, this questions is I live in the southwest where structures are stucco, what can you comment about them and what should we look for versus a brick building? So do either one of you want to address that specifically. Todd Spore: Sure, I'll take it. We have plaster in our nick of the woods as well. Some of the biggest things that we see, the issues that you want to be the most concerned about is, is back in the old days you would find that some of the sheathing – exterior sheathing board people would say you did not need to have damp roofing or emulsion or rolled on type of damp roofing behind stucco. We're a firm believer that you can't have too many plains of redundancy in trying to keep water out as we all know stucco and plaster has a tendency to crack in trays allowing that water – moisture to penetrate in through your finish and so just making sure that you have the proper drainage plains behind those, the proper damp proofing as well as just maintaining and monitoring your cracks and joints in the stucco making sure that after a time those things will – the finish, the elastomeric coatings that go on these types of assemblies will wear down and break down and so keeping up with that is very important. Do you think that answered it? Jennifer Lemon: Yes, that was very comprehensive. The next question is what is the best way to search behind brick? Todd Spore: Well, I guess I'll take that one too. Well there are a bunch of different ways to do that. We actually came up with a little bitty minnie spy camera that we bought from one of these little security stores and tied some string and some wire to it, put a little Mag flash light on it and taped it up and we used that a lot of times too so that we're not having to break or tear off a whole wall. We'll get somewhere up high in that wall assembly only be required to knock out a brick or two and then be able to drop this camera down in the air space to be able to assess if there is damp proofing back there to be able to assess the condition of the brick ties in that wall and just help us understand what maybe causing some of the problems that initiated the investigation to begin with. Peggy Caruso: I just want to add one more thing to that. It was a good answer Todd but for leaks on the outside sometimes we could start at – don't ever forget that a good water test will go a long way. Todd Spore: That's correct and also as you're – as I'm – of course on the spot here I'm just trying to think on the win but also infrared cameras are a good way to – in some ways get a sense of thermal differences that maybe as a result of water intrusion. Jennifer Lemon: Thank you, both of you. Also as a reminder to participants still on, I know we're going a little bit over but I think this is important information to provide you. So if you do have additional questions please feel free to used the instant message capability that we discussed in the beginning to address or to submit any questions and even if we don't get to them they will be provided answers to in a follow-up documentation. OK, another question is, is fiberglass mold resistant? Peggy Caruso: Mold will grow on fiberglass. Todd Spore: I'd like to add though the common thought is that the fiber glass itself doesn't necessary grow the mold but it's all of the dirt and the debris and the dust and the stuff in the air that gets trapped by that is what generally you find as a good mold source of food for them. Jennifer Lemon: Okay, we have another question regarding thermostats, does the auto setting of a thermostat create a problem with limited outdoor air and elevated CO2 levels during occupied hours the participant thought the fan should be set to on and not auto? Peggy Caruso: Well, the particular type of mechanisms that we used on these most of them are barging, it's hang outside. They're not very closed, they're very opened, they're outside so you get a lot of fresh air through that. It's designed to pull in fresh air, go through the condensation coils and provide cool air inside. With air flowing through a filter system so do want to stay on auto. If we go on fan or on we are bypassing that condensation where it rings out the humidity in the air and there's a little drain line out the back, you see that brings out the humidity, takes the water and throws it back outside, underneath the portable or away from the portable draining it away. Jennifer Lemon: Todd, do you have anything to add on that? Todd Spore: No, I think Peggy did a good job with that one. Jennifer Lemon: Okay, great. The next one is, is it safe to allow soaked dry wall to dry out instead of replacing it. Peggy Caruso: That is not our practice and I don't think it's the practice that there will be recommendation in the mold remediation schools and commercial buildings. I have not seen that ever really work. If you get sheet rock that's wet your best deal is to cut it out. It would take so long for it to dry all the way through, you wouldn't be able to use the room and it would smell afterwards anyway so it just needs to come out. Todd Spore: I agree with Peggy and it also – as you – you have seen wet sheet rock it also kind of destroys some of the physical properties of that sheet rock as well. There are different types of sheet rock that can be used that don't – aren't adversely effected by water submersion or being attacked by water but typical sheet rock doesn't necessarily like that. Jennifer Lemon: OK next question is should the air conditioning be run in summer if no school is, you know, in session but I obviously the high humidity and temperature is to be taken into consideration. Peggy Caruso: You know that's a great question. It would be important to know where you're located. OK, we're in the gulf coast very high humidity but right now kind of doesn't matter, this weather can move anywhere across the states right. What we do in Katy shutdown our air and one of the things that you can do is exactly what we were talking about in the Webinar is a good moisture and mold plan. So whatever you're going to do make your plan and stay involved in it. Do sampling, I don't mean mold sampling I mean temperature and humidity readings, you know, there are devices that you can hang on the wall or locate in a room or a building or several rooms and monitor what's going on in that building. And is shutdown period over hot humid conditions and you would be surprised if you don't have any outside air, you don't have the door propped open, you don't have occupancy, you don't have cleaning going on, there is no occupants in that building, you have a total shutdown on the building that you could maintain a decent environment without high moisture or mold growth. Cleaning is important before you go into a situation like that. Jennifer Lemon: Okay. The next question is regarding carpet cleaning. Those who don't use dry extraction methods, put a lot of moisture into a building, do you have any experience with moldy carpet or humidity removal issues due to the wet cleaning of carpet? Peggy Caruso: We do have a truck mounted steam vacuum, we vacuum our own carpets and we provide the air, air conditioning, air flow, dehumidifiers to make sure that our carpets dry and we watch and make sure maintain our equipment and proper training on those people doing that job to make sure that they don't put too much water down, the equipment is in good shape and help is there in the drying. Any of those things fail and yes, you can be replacing carpet because you've ruined it and there are – once it really starts souring and stinking, you've left that on there too long that – or mold is growing there and sometimes you are – you do have to replace flooring. Jennifer Lemon: Okay. Next question is how do you deal with the fresh air requirement in humid climates without overloading your HVAC system? Peggy Caruso: Well, I'm going to have to defer, I am not an HVAC expert. We have excellent people here that take care of that; engineers, a lot of Katy's – when we redo a system we have pre-treat systems, so we have – so we have pre-treat air before it goes into the air conditioning and so I am not much help to you on that question. Todd Spore: And I'm not either Peggy, but you're quite right. I mean our designers, we have a mechanical, electrical and plumbing engineers on board here and the way they treat that is just like you said, pre-treating that air, the design of that system has to know what part of the country you're being designed in and they can take care of that or account for that hot humid air that they're bringing in as fresh air. Jennifer Lemon: Great. Well, Peggy and Todd, thank you so much for responding to these questions on the fly. It looks like we had some really engaged participants that have some great questions. We're going to go ahead and conclude before – we're over our time and I'm respectful of everybody else's busy schedules. So again, I thank you for your participation – wasn't answered, please check back on EPAs Webinar resource page and we will have a list of all the questions and answers that were posed during this Webinar. We will also post the slides for today's session and so please feel free to share this with your colleagues and look forward to seeing you at another upcoming Webinar in our technical series. Thank you so much, everybody. Have a great rest of the day.